I finally reached the point where relearning Spanish is giving me a headache. As if all the different tenses weren’t enough, I also have to learn when to use the different grammatical moods! If you’re like me and English was your first language, the whole concept is anything but intuitive.
Consider these two sentences:
- Bob likes the subjunctive.
- It’s bad that Bob likes the subjunctive.
The first sentence is in the indicative mood; in other words, it just states a fact. The second sentence — at least the Spanish translation of that sentence — is in the subjunctive mood. (I’m not 100% sure that it’s considered subjunctive in English.) Anyway, the subjunctive mood is used to express judgments, emotions, and several other vague things like that.
But here’s what I’m wondering: why in the world would anyone need a different form of the verb to like in each of those sentences? The meaning is perfectly clear. If I said “It’s bad that Bob likes the subjunctive” in Spanish and used the indicative form of the verb, would any Spanish speakers really have difficulty understanding me?
English isn’t without its own pointless “rules”, of course. Take a look at these two sentences:
- If I were you, I’d kill Bob.
- If I was you, I’d kill Bob.
The first sentence sounds correct, doesn’t it? But you still wouldn’t have any difficulty understanding the second one. After all, sentences like the second one are becoming more and more common. Wikipedia gives examples like “If I was President” and “If I was a rich girl”.
So, English is getting rid of the subjunctive. Do you think Spanish will do the same? I hope so — preferably before I have to take my placement test.
Yes, you’re right that the subjunctive is disappearing from English. But Spanish and other languages still have it going strong. Once you get over the hump and can start to “feel” when you need subjunctive and when you don’t, you’ll definitely be close to fluency. Keep at it, if I can help with you with it, just ask.
Thanks for the offer! You might get a question or two from me soon, lol.
The use of “was” for “were” in hypotheticals is very common, but this is different than the use of subjunctive in that-clauses. The use of subjunctive in that-clauses still seems to be in productive use in English. Note the difference in meaning:
I insist that you be quiet.
I insist that you are quiet.
Ah, thanks for pointing that out! So much for my point about English getting rid of the subjunctive, lol. But at least English has less verb conjugations. I’m very thankful for that.
A very valid point John. There is big difference though, that subjunctive that-clauses are used much more frequently in Spanish than in English.
Quiero que vayas conmigo.
*I want that you come with me.
I want you to come with me.
Me dijo que no comiera pan.
*She told me that not eat bread.
She told me not to eat bread.
In addition to that, the example of “I insist that you be quiet” only shows the subjunctive with the verb “to be” and maybe a couple of other irregular verbs. For all other verbs, the subjunctive and indicative are the same verb form:
I insist that you walk to the store.
El subjuntivo es aquel que expresa la accion como si fuera un deseo o una peticion. Yo como hablante nativo de esta lengua puedo decirte que el modo subjuntivo casi no se emplea en el habla com
The subjunctive express a action as if it was a desire or a request. I’m spanish speaker so I can say you that the subjuctive mood almost we don’t use it in our common talks ‘couse is very formal.
Well, I tried to traslate good, however, you can say me if I made a mistake.. The english is very hard for me! really!
I hate your grammar mood..
what does this sentence mean?
What are you to do?
is the same that this:
What are you going to?
Help please!!
You could argue that the subjunctive in English isn’t an verb inflection at all, but that it’s really the infinitive. The evidence is that it is not negated like an inflected verb.
Inflected verbs are negated by inserting “do”:
I walk.
I do not walk.
Infinitives are negated by just inserting “not”
to be or not to be
When we negate the “subjunctive” we don’t insert “do”.
I insist that this cease.
I demand that this not continue.
* I demand that this do not continue.
That’s a good point goofy, except that with the verb ‘to be’ the infinitive and the subjunctive are two different inflections. But in any case, you make a compelling argument.
“be” is the same in the infinitive and the subjunctive.
to be or not to be
I demand that you be quiet
Unless you’re talking about “if I was/were”… but I don’t think that’s the subjunctive, because it’s a different distribution and form than the subjunctive in that-clauses.
They’re both subjunctive. The first is present subjunctive, and the second is imperfect subjunctive.
They were in Old English, and the traditional view is that they are in modern English too. But not everyone agrees.
“be” is the only verb that has a special form in couterfactual clauses. With any other verb, the simple past tense is used.
I wish I were in Paris.
I wish I lived in Paris.
In the traditional view, “were” and “lived” are the subjunctive. But formally, “lived” is the past tense and “were” is another form, which The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language calls the irrealis.
Also, “were” is not distributed like the present subjunctive. The present subjunctive occurs after that-clauses, and “were” occurs in counterfactual clauses after “if” and “wish”.
And “were” is not the past tense of “be”, like “lived” is the past tense of “live”:
if he lives in Paris
*if he be in Paris
I don’t have a very strong grasp of English Grammar. I’d better stick to Spanish grammar
Yes, the Spanish subjunctive is a tough nut for us English speakers to crack but keep at it. It will be worth all the pain and agony later.
@Voices, Finally understanding and being able to use the subjunctive in Spanish happened at about the same time I began to speak fluently. It’s tough, but it’s a milestone that can’t be avoided.
. All I can you tell is to practice, and try to understand the rule rather rely on rote memorization especially where the usage of the Spanish subjunctive varies from English.
You can check out my website for an explanation of the English subjunctive in its most formal usages. If I were you, though, I wouldn’t scratch my head about it in English, but Spanish inflects more verbs so it is easily seen. Also, you say:
It
I agree with the subjunctive conjugation, it is unnecessary, the concept exists of course in english but we express is without inventing a whole new complex verb conjugation, one of my students once told me that he sees English as being more evolved, though it has it’s problems too, it is not overly complex in that regard…
I disagree with the native speaker above because I too am a native speaker of both english and spanish and I never realized that I use the subjunctive mood all the time in spanish till I learned french. It just sounds weird to a native speaker to here “quiero que tu es” vs “quiero que tu seas”.